From USF Classmates to PGA Principals: Steering an Engineering Career Forward

In this episode of PGA’s Breaking the ICE podcast, host Gordon Greene, PE sits down with Principal and Structures Director Joe Losaria, PE for a conversation on career growth, mentorship, and bold decision-making.

Joe shares his journey from intern to industry leader, along with the pivotal moments that shaped his path. They also dive into how PGA’s internship program has evolved, why mentorship matters, and the value of taking calculated risks, plus a few stories you won’t want to miss from their undergrad years together at the University of South Florida.

Tune in to hear from:

• Gordon Greene, PE – Co-Founder & Executive Vice President (Host): He’s the embodiment of a competitive spirit, and that motivation has fueled his work as an engineer, business owner, and civic volunteer for the past 25 years. He loves talking with people about where those passions overlap! Come join the conversation!
• Joe Losaria, PE – Principal & Structures Director (Guest): Joe brings over 25 years of experience designing transportation structures, with a detail-minded, collaborative approach to every project he tackles. Passionate about mentorship, he leads his team with clients’ interests front and center. Outside of work, you may find Joe playing guitar or piano, behind a camera, or even flying a drone!

Season 2 of PGA’s Breaking the ICE podcast is here! We’re taking you behind the scenes of what it takes to build a successful transportation firm and highlighting the people, strategies, and mindsets that drive meaningful impact. Hosted by PGA Co-Founder Gordon Greene, PE, each episode brings together subject matter experts from PGA and beyond to explore career growth, strategic planning, company culture, emerging disciplines, entrepreneurial thinking, and much more.

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Transcript

Gordon Greene, PE: [00:00:00] Welcome to Breaking the Ice. We're Patel, Greene and Associates and we are here to tell stories about our three favorite things, business, culture, and engineering. Let's get to it.

Alright, well welcome back to our next edition of the PGA podcast, which we call Breaking the Ice. I am your host, Gordon Greene, and with me today is Joe Losaria, Structures Director, Principal, long time friend. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yes, sir. I am here. 

Gordon Greene, PE: And today we're gonna, we're gonna, you know, as usual, uh, with guests like Joe, take a little stroll down memory lane, but also got a topic in mind.

So we're gonna be talking about, you know, career choices and, and kind of crossing over and not really knowing where you're gonna end up and the, the path that, uh, that it can take to get there. And Joe's got a very interesting story to tell there. Uh, and I've got, I guess, a few parts of my career that kind of fall in line with that too.

So I'll share some, [00:01:00] um, also, um, so just to get us started, Joe, um, don't you, uh, I guess tell us a little bit about some of that background, uh, including, you know, how you and I met. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah, no, I think, uh, well started in 1999. That's when I migrated here to the U.S. right. And, uh, from the get go I knew I needed to do civil engineering.

Uh, but what was interesting about that started with my uncle. He owned a, a cement plant back in the Philippines, way back when. I had no clue what civil engineers did. All I knew is. He did pretty well and he owned a cement plan. And I think I was like, well, if it worked for him, maybe it'll work for me. Uh, but that's when we moved here.

So I had to finish my degree at USF. Uh, but I was fortunate enough there, um, I was one, one of my friends, and you probably know Scott Blaisel too. So we took a bunch of classes together and somehow he was already at PBS&J at the time as a intern as well, [00:02:00] helping the PDE group. Um, so he offered me a, a position there to also be an intern just like him.

And uh, that's kind of where it, I guess the steering of the career really all started. Um, and I think you were, you were an intern at that 

time. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. I was trying to think back, did we meet at USF or PBS&J? It must have been PBS&J. Um, and then later on I actually could recognize you over at USF in some of my classes and, and we were kind of friends, uh.

Uh, I guess we were, so yeah, same deal. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah, it's funny, I think, uh, we had those engineering papers we used to use for our homework and, uh, anytime I see all these different interns, we all had different papers and you could see PBS&J was, uh, on a bunch of our homework at the time. So I think that's when I found out you worked at, at PBS&J too and obviously just things started from there.

Um, but yeah, I think that that was really the beginning of my career. Um. I think similar with you, it all [00:03:00] started with just CADD and doing markups and helping with whatever, you know, they had at the Tampa office at the time. But I think the, the best career opportunity at the time was when, uh, I got a chance to work at District Seven.

I was just an intern and, uh, I think I was working maybe 12, 16 hours a week and they assigned me over at the district office. Um. And all this, I had no clue how FDOT operate. That was my first time ever being in a DOT office. Uh, which a little different maybe than your story, but I was in consultant project management at the time and I had no clue what they did there.

Uh, but that was the first time I met Joe Hitterman. 

Mm-hmm. 

Who actually, man, 24 years ago 

Gordon Greene, PE: He was at the department back then, or 

Joe Losaria, PE: he was a project manager. Um, you know, and I was helping all the different PMs there at the consultant project management office and, uh, you know, worked with Joe a lot. But that's when I really learned more of like, what is the [00:04:00] FDOT world, like, you know, all these different submittals, consultants, and.

My, my task at the time was to literally go through boxes of submittals from all the different consultants and make sure every sheet is in every task. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Paper 

plans, 

Joe Losaria, PE: paper plans, and you know, all the, make sure all the pages are there, they're all signed and sealed, things like that that, you know, we, we really don't do these things anymore.

But learned a lot, mainly meeting people there at the DOT. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: You know, so, 

Gordon Greene, PE: yeah. I, um, well I don't wanna fast forward too much in your story, but, and I was thinking about, um, getting to know you coming up, so I'll just go ahead and insert some of these things. Um, yeah, I don't think we crossed too much because I started in Bartow and you were in Tampa, so I didn't really get to know you until I started going over to Tampa.

Um, some while I was still going through school. But, uh, but we did have some classes together [00:05:00] and, um, 

Joe Losaria, PE: a few, 

Gordon Greene, PE: you know, I, this isn't me patting myself on the back or anything, but always did, I was always good at school. School always came fairly easy and um, a lot of the times, you know, having like the best grades or whatever in the class.

And, um, it's hard not to say that, not come off like some sort of, not even that humble, lower brag. Um, but I know, I remember we had circuits together and I'm sure you did better than me in that one. Um, and then, but what I really remember was that numerical method. No, not numerical, is that what it was? The math lab with Krantz 

Joe Losaria, PE: I remember 

that class. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. Dr. Krantz, uh, who was, um, an interesting guy. Surely retired by now. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Hopefully. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Uh, hope yes. Hopefully, um, Nora is still there. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah, 

true. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Uh, and this was like a tough, this was like computer programming, but uh, you know, Joe and I had some experience through that, through criteria, I guess writing criteria for cross sections and, um.

[00:06:00] Had a knack for it. And the way this guy graded the, his tests, it was a true curve. It was zero to a hundred. And so, uh, a lot of the guys that, at least some of the guys that I hung out with, some there at school. They were getting like 25 30 on a test and that was like, kind of most everybody was getting a 20 because then he would curve it and then you'd a, those people getting 20 fives would have like a C or something like that.

Um, so they're all getting like 25's and 27's and I'm sitting right there and they're asking me, you know, Hey, well did you get, I'm kind of hiding it 'cause I get like an 84 or something like that. And, uh, thinking I'm super smart just to find out that Joe Losaria got like a 95 or a hundred or something.

I'm like, dadgummit.. Um, and the, the, the peak of that humiliation was probably the end of the semester. We're done. I, I did well in the class, uh, walking up and he's talking to Joe and [00:07:00] I walk up and he's obviously, uh, trying to get Joe to accept a. Uh, whatever, like a master's, like be his TA or what, whatever do, do, get a master's degree with him and I'm like, he's, I, I'm here.

So he's gonna ask me now too. 'cause I did pretty good too. Nope. See you later. I probably don't even know my name. And off I go and I'm like, dadgummit, Joe Losaria Uh, and the other thing that I'll always remember about you is, uh, later on when you came back to the Depart or to PBS&J Office. Every year they would do a work, well still do work program update cycle.

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. 

Gordon Greene, PE: And there was always some poor scrub that got in, put in charge of it. It was always a young person. Well, Joe was that poor scrub one year. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Oh yeah. 

Gordon Greene, PE: And um, I had never done those before, so that just meant he was in charge. Those was, there was, I don't know, dozens and dozens. Right. And someone had to keep track of it and make sure it all got done on time.

And, um, 

Joe Losaria, PE: pprs and, 

Gordon Greene, PE: and that was Joe's job that year. And uh, you know, everybody gets a few. So I had my few. And I didn't know [00:08:00] what I was doing, but whatever I did was really wrong. I did it really wrong. And, uh, I go to Joe and, uh, instead of what I came away with is he just told me I did the whole thing wrong, like badly.

Um, but did it in like the nicest way possible. I left that conversation like actually feeling good that I had done it all wrong, which I was very impressed by. And you were like, I don't know, 22 or something. It's like you were a seasoned manager or anything. It was just your natural way. So yeah. And you've maintained that, you're still 

very good.

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. Yeah. You know, the engineering is one thing, but I think one of the things I learned just going to school, like meeting people and you know, it's being nice too, is a play plays a big thing. You know, like the Joe Hitterman example, 

Gordon Greene, PE: it's 

easy to do. 

Joe Losaria, PE: I remember, uh. You know, I, I was into computers at the time.

I helped him upgrade his home desktop. Like you do all these other things just to build relationships, you know, [00:09:00] through Exactly. Uh, growing up so. Man. But yeah, USF man, a lot of good, good memories. I remember the study group I was in, uh, yeah, I don't think we, we had some of those together, but like Jennifer Green was, she 

Gordon Greene, PE: should 

have been there, I guess 

Joe Losaria, PE: Jennifer Green, who's now the state drainage engineer.

Yeah. You know, she was in part of my study group. Um, so you'd be surprised that, what can happen down the road that you wouldn't even 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. Well, and you mentioned Scott, he's Roadway group 

now. 

Joe Losaria, PE: HDR. Yep. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yep, yep. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Um, but yeah, I think that the main point there is, it's funny now looking back, I, I wish I was a little more intentional, you know, steering my career path because I just kind of happened to step on the right things, I guess, at the right time and, and end up where we're at now.

But, um, yeah, I think one other thing I wanted to share was, uh, I, I switched disciplines a lot. Uh, I think all the stories you're mentioning, so that's when I was in roadway. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Um, that was the first four years of my [00:10:00] career after my bachelor's degree, I wanted to join the Structures Group. Um, you know Johnny Fung, one of our other PGA structure staff members, he was in the Structures group already at the time, but they wouldn't let me in.

They said, you need a master's degree to be in the Structures group. 

So 

I was like, fine. I guess I'll be Dr. Krantz advice and go take a master's. Uh, so my first four years I was doing roadway until I can get that master's degree. Um, but looking back now, I, that wasn't intentional, just happened by accident there, you know, uh, pursuing what I.

I really wanted to do, but I wouldn't trade that for anything. Now, looking back like I did roadway, uh, I did a little bit of water resources, ended up doing some water main CADD plans for our water resources group, uh, with the Ernie. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: If you remember him at the time. And then, uh, did some landscaping plans.

Anyway, that was like. That first four years. I think working in [00:11:00] roadway was super beneficial. Uh, got to meet Gordon, Hiren, and all these other folks that, you know, wouldn't, wouldn't change that. Uh, now for sure. Um, but yeah, uh, I think. I was gonna go over a little bit of my career experience too. I think that first four years, like I said, I call that like the exploration period.

Just 'cause, I mean, I wanted to do structures, but you know, obviously you can't do what you want right when you graduate. You end up kind of trying different things and I think a lot of younger engineers probably experience the same thing. And then you've got that time period from like year four to year 10, where I think that's the time when.

You really have to kind of hone in on, on what you want. Um, and I guess for you that was drainage 

Gordon Greene, PE: drain, 

Joe Losaria, PE: a little bit of roadway here and there 

Yeah, I, 

Gordon Greene, PE: I did a lot of roadway up front and I do consider myself a roadway engineer. Um, but I've done drainage for longer. And it's cooler to be a drainage engineer.

So I go with that. [00:12:00] 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. And for me, that was structures I guess. Um, and I kind of really wanted to do that. And that was the time period. I think that was the most beneficial in my career. Um, and then from that year 10 to year 15, I think that's when you end up, venturing a little bit beyond technical skills.

You start some project management, uh, being involved in marketing, business development. And so that was like my year, zero to 15. Uh, but looking back, there are some things I could have done differently. Um. This topic about steering your career? You know, I think, uh, early on I probably should have done all the certifications I could have done.

Um, I think the SE exam for structure engineers out there, that's one that, man, I still regret not doing that early in my career. Um, 

Gordon Greene, PE: homework's harder when you're 40, ain't it? 

Joe Losaria, PE: Oh my gosh. That, and sitting on a 16 hour exam in your forties is very different when you were in your twenties. Um. [00:13:00] You know, I think a little bit more networking early on.

I probably could have done that a little bit better on that. Um, maybe something to share in my career. I mean, I, I ended up, I worked two jobs to pay for my college, right. So there was just no time to 

Gordon Greene, PE: mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Socialize, uh, it was study and, uh, try to get my degree and, and, and work hard. So that, that was kind of, but I think had I joined ASCE and maybe do a little more things early on that, that may have been.

I mean a little different. 

Gordon Greene, PE: You 

did okay. 

Joe Losaria, PE: I did. Okay. But the other thing, man, like understanding of, FDOT prequalifications, I think I had no clue what that was until I joined PGA. Um, 

Gordon Greene, PE: same. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. And now looking back, I'm like, oh, if I had done like the segmental bridge for maybe a few more years.

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, 

Joe Losaria, PE: that would, would've been helpful. Maybe I could have tried some movable bridges early on, you know, thing. Things like that. You're just going, you're not thinking about the pre-quals in 20 years, what that would do [00:14:00] for your career. Uh, but for younger engineers, I think understanding that early on could have a lot of benefits down the road.

Right. Um, and honestly, the, this is where Gordon and Hiren I think excelled a lot, is just that business mindset early on. Um. I think had you not approached me, uh, back in 2013 to start a structures group, I, I didn't really have that business mindset, you know? And, uh, I think that's where a lot of, they just don't teach that in school.

Gordon Greene, PE: Right. 

Joe Losaria, PE: You know? And, uh, I decided to go down a technical route and pursue my Master's in structures where I think you had done A MBA. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Kind of honed that in a lot better. So those are some of the things I think I could have done a little bit better on. But looking back, no regrets for sure. Yeah, and everything we've described, I mean that just built, built relationships and kind of helped.

Put this where we're at now. So, 

Gordon Greene, PE: yeah. And thinking back to doing things like drawing up landscaping plans, I mean, you're not really doing that much [00:15:00] anymore, but, 

Joe Losaria, PE: Nope. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Um, I think it, it speaks to a, a mindset of a young engineer, just young, professional, um, when you're doing a good job and working hard and you build a little reputation of like, well, Joe will take care of whatever, and he'll do a good job, and back then you're cheap.

Right? So someone needs help, then we'll just let Joe do it. He he'll figure it out. I had a lot of those same opportunities here in Bartow. It was such a small office at PBS&J that they had a little planning group and a little like a utility utilities group. And, uh, of course we had, uh, the, the GEC and that provided plenty of opportunities for my sort of bread and butter, uh, expertise.

Well, it wasn't expertise back then, but you know, I knew how to do that stuff. But I remember just doing maps like, you know, the planning group needed. Uh, I remember this goes back way back, but they were still GIS and they wanted all these GIS maps done up for some study they were doing. And, um, it didn't make [00:16:00] much sense to me back then.

But thinking back, it, it makes sense. They wanted too many hours to do it or was gonna take too many hours to do it and they didn't have the budget. Um, which I viewed back then as like. Negatively because, 'cause I was a dumb kid and I didn't know that it would've, to do all that would've taken a lot of effort and they just didn't have the budget.

So they, we did it all in CADD and it wasn't smart like GIS, but they looked good. Um, and, you know, I had to figure a whole bunch of stuff out on my own. And the point is like. This sort of can do. Um, no, this isn't probably on my path. I don't really plan to be a planner or a GIS person, but you need help. I think I can help you and, you know, gives me more to do and so I absolutely I'll do it.

And then, uh, you know, even those relationships, that lady that ran the planning group, then she ended up at, right here in Bartow at Central Florida Planning Council. So you build these relationships that you don't. You don't have to know that it's [00:17:00] gonna play out right in the long run, but chances are with this very small community that we work in, yeah, it, it will.

So lesson is yes, try some new things out, help some other people. If you can find yourself at a company like we were at and like we have become, um, especially when you're coming in, just do do whatever you can to help. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. I think to your point, I think those are the, some of the things that don't change regardless of where or what you're doing, right?

As a young engineer, if you have the can-do attitude, do your best excel at it. I mean you, the opportunities almost just naturally come. Right? Exactly the same thing on that 40th street job where I did the landscaping CADD efforts when I was younger. Uh. I had no clue what goes in the landscaping plants. I just got a bunch of markups from the actual registered landscape architect.

And, but you know, you do a good job and [00:18:00] you, you ask the right questions and you work hard and you meet the deadline and it all works out, you know? 

Gordon Greene, PE: Exactly. 

Um, 

exactly. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. 

Gordon Greene, PE: So. Try to take lessons from our own life experiences and, uh, as happens a lot of times, that's what ends up informing how, you know, we build out PGA and things we try to put in place to make those things happen.

Or make them available for, for folks coming into PGA. So, I dunno if you wanna speak a little bit about, um, you know, ways you've made that possible within the structures group way you, you've stepped into leadership roles, you know, for the company overall to, to build programs out that, that make that possible.

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah, I think, uh, we, we basically took everything we learned from, you know, working at those, uh. Larger firms and, and everything I've learned from my, uh, career before PGA kind of applied those. Once we started the Structures group, it took a little while. Obviously it was me and Johnny for. [00:19:00] 

Gordon Greene, PE: Until 

Dennis. Yeah, 

Joe Losaria, PE: a year and a half or two years, I think prior, prior to having a real group.

But um, and we've done a lot, right? Uh, examples of those. I think we had interns pretty early on at PGA, uh, which we obviously have now, but you look back 10 years ago where our internship program is versus now it's drastically different, uh, in a lot of good ways for sure. Um, but I think that's one, 'cause I think early in our story, right, we both started as interns, um, and that clearly had a lot of benefits for us in our career, and we wanna make sure we carry that too, that PGA, um, helps the company too.

Um, so I think, I mean, we can talk about the step program a little bit now if you wanna 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. Well, just to echo some of what 

you're saying, uh, especially in, in yours, in my case. We, we did work our engineering jobs through college. And so when you try to weigh the [00:20:00] value of bringing in kids for the summer or on a part-time basis while they're in school, is it worth it?

Can they really learn anything like we know firsthand? It absolutely gives you a huge advantage, which gives us an advantage, 

right? 

Um, so it's certainly a win-win thing. So it's a no-brainer for, I mean, we, we've been doing that. From the beginning. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. And I think the whole, uh, rotating thing around your career, the first four years, I think we've built our internship program essentially with a very similar mindset with the STEP program that we have.

Uh, you know, that's basically the summer program where we allow the interns to rotate now through all the different disciplines. Um, which I think helps. I wish, I wish that was the internship we had 24 years ago, right? Yeah. Um. Granted, we still kind of, were able to do a lot of things, but I think making that a, a part of the, the actual program, uh, will really help a lot of the young engineers, uh, that go through our [00:21:00] STEP program internship.

Uh, I think another one, uh, is just being able to rotate. Like even in, in the Structures group, we have a lot of EI's that didn't necessarily start, uh. Structures, right? 

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Uh, Victor worked two days in roadway and then became a structures EI. Um, but we had plenty of other ones that were in drainage for a little while.

And I think Michael, uh, is one example where he was in roadway for. 

Maybe for whole his, 

Gordon Greene, PE: however long he was at the place he was at before he came over here. But even, yeah, I guess it probably was several 

years. 

Joe Losaria, PE: He did a little bit of roadway when he first joined us too. Mm-hmm. And then I switched over to structures.

So just kind of back to my story of that first zero to five to six years of your career, I think it's really a good thing. Um, 'cause Michael's excelling obviously now, in structures. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. I think he would agree. And you're able to speak to him from a. Place of personal experience to, to say, Hey, this, that's, I'm not, I'm not asking you to do [00:22:00] this because I'm holding you back or whatever.

Like, that's exactly what I did and I'm glad I did it right. 

So, yeah. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. And at the end of the day, uh, you know, I think everything we do is gonna be multi-discipline, right? So. If you ever wanna become a project manager and weigh down your career, where you touch all these different things on one job, understanding a little bit of something or what the others do come, goes a long, long, long way.

So, 

Gordon Greene, PE: and, and appreciate what 

the right, like, I don't, I don't have to know the ins and outs of, uh, you know, an ITS design, but I can certainly appreciate the work that goes into it and not just, uh, willy-nilly. Blow through their designs with my drainage design or something, you know? 

Joe Losaria, PE: Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, we, we always joke in structures, right?

E even though we're, we're only bridging the two roads coming up to the water, uh, at the end of the day, we can't do a bridge with no alignment profile and having some understanding of how all that's set. Will make you [00:23:00] just a better structures engineer too. Absolutely. So, so that's one example. Um, I think one lesson learned, I guess from my career, I wish I had worked at like smaller or medium sized firms through early part in my career.

I had zero exposure to that, uh, the first fif 12 years of my career. 'cause I only worked at large firms. Right. Um, so I think anyone listening out there, you know, I think. Don't be so, uh, so selective of like, oh, I just wanna work at large firms with large projects. You'd be surprised at how much learning actually can happen at place.

Like PGA, you know, uh, or even some other smaller firms. Uh, you, it's, it's a whole different company, but it's still the same projects, but you get to touch on more things, I think. Mm-hmm. If you work at a, a smaller firm, so. I think that's one. Um, the third one I had was just finding mentors early in your career.

[00:24:00] Mm-hmm. Um, you know, we've kind of taken that to a whole different level too at, at PGA. Um, I think early on, I forget when we started it with the structures group. It was obviously once we had enough mentors is when we started that, which in the beginning we, it was a small group, but, uh, I figured that was a good thing to start early on too, which now we do it company wide, obviously right at, at PGA, um, and the help of others, it's a more formalized thing where, uh, you know, we get to partner different folks in the company, which I, I really think that should have been a.

I think that was at some of these larger firms I worked for. Um, luckily you kind of naturally, organically find mentors too, I guess. Um, even when you work at larger firms, uh, I had a few of those, um, growing up, uh, in my career as well. But I think that's one thing we've, we've kind of taken to heart the PGA and actually, uh, instituted something here too.

Gordon Greene, PE: [00:25:00] We found a way to hire some of our mentors over here. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Right? 

Gordon Greene, PE: It's 

always been nice. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Absolutely. Um, so, so that's one. I think the, the other one is just not being afraid to take risks. Mm-hmm. Uh, is one other thing, um, that we've kind of taken here at p uh, at PGA. Um, and what I mean by that is, um, you know, I think if there's something that you're passionate about, you know, you wanna start.

Chase a project, uh, you know, work on a design build project. At least here we don't limit the growth of, of our staff members. Um, and I think some of the other firms, obviously, especially the larger ones, you get kind of pigeonholed on a project, uh, for four or five years in some cases. Uh, it's really hard to.

To take risks, right? 

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: When you're in a larger firm. Uh, whereas here we have a lot more opportunities to do that, and we obviously encourage that a lot. Um, you know, and I think a lot [00:26:00] of our young staff too, I, I feel like they, they know they can take risks, so it, it allows 'em to be go-getters and. And really try to improve their career, you know?

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. They won't be punished. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think the last thing, uh, I think the whole running a business line, I mean, I've been kinda learning that on the fly the last 10 years here, PGA, uh, but obviously with your, your help and Hiren, um, I think I learned a lot, uh, doing that, you know, just.

Understanding financials and managing projects, making sure the company actually turns a profit every year. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Uh, instituting things to make, make those things happen down the road. I think that that's been a great learning experience too. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Absolutely. And that's, uh, a lot of this conversations on the evolution of a career.

And of course we're thinking more like, well, you could do roadway and then maybe do structures and maybe you become a project manager. [00:27:00] And that's all true. But you know, sometimes you get the opportunity, like in your case to then of course you're still doing the structures and the project management, but now you know this business management financial stuff and uh, just leadership in general is kind of this next evolution of your career.

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. Maybe flipping the 

question over to you, Gordon's, like, uh, what made you take the MBA right instead of a master's degree in civil engine? How, how do you know that was the right thing to do? At the time, 

Gordon Greene, PE: there's no knowing. Um, but they were gonna pay for 80% of it. So, um, the price was right and. That's the, I enjoy school, you know, so, and I was, I guess I was pretty firmly in drainage at the time, and I wasn't gonna get a master's degree and wanna resources or anything.

Like I, I wasn't gonna really learn anything probably that I really, that was my thought anyway. Um, but there was a lot of my business I didn't know. And again, [00:28:00] they were gonna, they were gonna pay for most of it. So I'm, I'm made it work. Um. The the, and the intent was never to start my own company. Back then it really was because this would've been, well see, I took a half, half a, I guess a semester off.

I graduated with my engineering degree at the end of 03, and I started in the MBA in the fall of 04. So I'm gonna take a little bit of time. Then I started, right, and it took me long to get the MBA then I did to get the engineering degree because I was working full-time. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Okay. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Full-time and then some, and had kids, uh, halfway through.

I had kids, my wife had kids, um. It was really just so in 04 everything was peachy at PBS&J and I'd planned to work there forever. And so it really was just to be the best manager and leader and whatever I could be for them, uh, genuinely. And then by the time I finished that degree, things had changed a little bit at PBS&J, um, I, you know, I guess, nah, I guess around that time, maybe a little bit after I [00:29:00] graduated.

So then I was in hindsight, glad I had that information for sure. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. So I think steering your, your career path like that, that's probably not, there's a reason most young kids go to engineering, right? It's not the MBA thing is like the last thing, 

right? 

They're there for science, math and all that. Um, but you know, I think now that we're more mentors to some of the younger engineers, like if there's someone that wants to take an MBA.

I'd support them for sure. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Oh, absolutely. You know? Absolutely. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. I think the, the last thing, uh, I got is, uh, also some of the leadership things. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm.

Joe Losaria, PE: I think we've instituted like a really good program here at PGA with the, uh, LIT, uh, program. Um, I think I, I do wish there were a few more opportunities like that in my career.

Gordon Greene, PE: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Um, 'cause again, I was pretty heavy in the technical side. Um, think I didn't really get into management till I was here at PGA. Uh, [00:30:00] but that's another one I think that we've really taken from our previous career and built a pretty good program. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. Just exposing folks to the things as early as possible, you know, not, not too early, but early, like, like you say, management.

Uh, we try to give people that experience or fairly early on when they show the aptitude for that sort of thing. And, um, yeah, just get 'em, get 'em exposed, get 'em comfortable with it, and then. When those things do get a little hairy, they're, they've already got some experience. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Right? Yeah. I think the last thing on the steering your career, see most fields, I feel like you don't have to do too much steering, like computer science, right?

You kind of know what, or become a pilot, you know what you're supposed to do, right? But our field, man, there's so many, such a broad market of things you could do where you do have to have a little bit of steering in your career. Otherwise you could end up just steering forever also. Well, 

Gordon Greene, PE: in circles. 

Joe Losaria, PE: In circles, [00:31:00] you know, so, uh, I, I think I'm, I'm glad I had the right mentors and worked at the right companies where, uh, I was able to steer my career to a, through a pretty narrow path, and it's been good.

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. 

And then one day some guy invites you the taco bus and, you know Yeah. Shakes it up a little bit. 

Joe Losaria, PE: I know. Yeah. That was the. The infancy of PGA structures with a taco bus in downtown 

Gordon Greene, PE: Taco bus downtown 

Tampa. Yep. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Uh, but yeah, well, I don't, no regrets, man. I think o um, one of the best decisions I made. Uh, and yeah, hopefully we could keep it going.

Gordon Greene, PE: You wanna know the conversation or the internal dialogue that was going on in my head while we're sitting there? Taco bus. So I was at some conference downtown and Hiren and I had been talking about it. Yeah. And I, I was there and it was one of those con we were still pretty new and I didn't know many people at this conference, so I was, I guess, on my own for lunch or didn't wanna stick around there.

And, um, [00:32:00] I think I called Hiren and I was like, I'm just gonna, I think, Losaria works at the HNTB downtown, so I'll just, I'll just see if he wants to meet for lunch. 

Joe Losaria, PE: All right. 

Gordon Greene, PE: And, uh, so we, he did and we met and, um, I'm thinking. Well, he's probably not gonna wanna do it, you know? Um, and then as we talked about it, some, you were showing definitely enough interest that in my head I was like, oh crap, he might actually be interested in this.

So then it was, then it was full court press for the next however long it, it didn't take that long. I think you were definitely into it, so it was just, 

Joe Losaria, PE: yeah, it's back to that, making 

Gordon Greene, PE: sure it was gonna work. 

Joe Losaria, PE: It's back to that whole taking risks thing. Yeah. Right. Like, uh, I mean, we're all engineers, so I weighed the risk.

I was like, all right, well. I'm at a pretty good point in the technical side of my career. I'm like, I guess I could keep doing that or take this risk, but what's the downside? I guess I could always go back. Uh, but. Yeah. Uh, sometimes you just gotta take the risk, man. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Well, and 

Joe Losaria, PE: see how it shakes out. 

Gordon Greene, PE: And I kind of [00:33:00] remember some of those conversations and it speaks to, 'cause we didn't have any core values.

I mean that's, I mean, we did, but we didn't have 'em written down. 

Right. 

Um, and so one of 'em, of course is integrity. And I can remember there, you know, trying to recruit, recruit you and Johnny over honing some of those skills. And I could see how some people would try to maybe downplay whatever your current position was or tell you that that wasn't.

Gonna work out for you or whatever. And I remember thinking, it doesn't matter what Joe Losaria is doing, he is going to be super successful. Why? Why try to convince him otherwise? So I remember in those conversations, like, whatever you decide, Joe, you're gonna be fine. Like, you're gonna be super successful.

You stay there, you're gonna run in the group one day, and whatever you wanna do, you're gonna be able to do. But here's this other opportunity, and I think it'll be, here's what that might look like, and you'll be successful at that too. And I never really, I really felt that about you and, and I remember that being very freeing of just like, honestly, you're, [00:34:00] that's the kind of person that you are.

You're going to be successful. I'd just rather you be successful here with us, obviously. 

Joe Losaria, PE: I appreciate 

that. 

Gordon Greene, PE: And, and we've, we've, I mean, I've employed that tactic. Many times when I felt it was true. I don't try to blow smoke. 

Joe Losaria, PE: No. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yep. But we've been able to recruit many people that fit that bill. Like it doesn't matter where you're at or what you're doing, you're gonna be good and successful.

Just have fun over here with us while you do that. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. And I think our recruitment process, we, we do a pretty good job of filtering that out of people and mm-hmm. We've obviously hired a lot of key individuals that match that too. Um, so yeah, and I kind of use the same tactic too. I mean, uh, it's effective.

Gordon Greene, PE: Yep. Yep. The 

truth. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Exactly. 

Gordon Greene, PE: All right, so we got a little bit more time. I'm gonna, I'm gonna spring something on you that, uh, was sprung on me at, uh, a golf tournament round around with Joe Lauk. So, uh, you know, you're Joe one, 'cause we hired you first and we, we started hiring more [00:35:00] Joes and we numbered them.

Um, so Joe Lauk is Joe two, even though. We did his podcast first, and now we're doing your podcast. We're mixing all that up. But, uh, we were playing golf and I'm not sure if it was the, the golf course beverages that had been consumed at that point, or if he was trying to do an impression of a podcast host, but we're just riding through the golf course and he goes, Hey, um.

Why don't you tell me two or three career defining moments, my golf course 

Joe Losaria, PE: on the golf course 

Gordon Greene, PE: on the golf cart. 

Joe Losaria, PE: That's gotta be the 

dream. 

Gordon Greene, PE: I'm like, what are you doing? Uh, but I thought that's a pretty good question. Mm-hmm. And so we, we just discovered career defining moments, riding through a golf course, playing golf.

So we shared some today, so you can, you can refer back, but I'm sure there are others. How about some career defining moments for Joe Losaria? 

Joe Losaria, PE: Oh, yeah, I think 

I shared a few already, but definitely number one was the DOT experience. Um. And, um, the [00:36:00] DOT is such a, like a family driven, uh, workplace, you know, and those relationships you build there.

I remember when I ended in my internship there, they even gave me a pen that had my name engraved. And uh, but those relationships I built with the department employees at the time, I think that really helped career defining moments, right? Mm-hmm. Because then when I was working and then down the road chasing some projects, like those relationships still.

Come in very, very handy. Some people business to this date, right? Uh, Joe Hitterman's, one example. Um, so I think that that's one for sure. I think, um, the crosstown connector, uh, folks are not familiar with that. 

Gordon Greene, PE: That was one of mine as well. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Hey, there you go. On the roadway side and I was on the structure side.

Gordon Greene, PE: Drainage, 

drainage drain, 

Joe Losaria, PE: no drainage, sorry. Yep. That. That was four years of defining our career moment, I guess a lot of sweat and late nights and hard work on that project [00:37:00] for sure. But, um, I think on the technical side, I was definitely a, a career defining moment, uh, in my opinion. Um, 

Gordon Greene, PE: conflict resolution, 

Joe Losaria, PE: yes.

Gordon Greene, PE: A little bit, 

Joe Losaria, PE: yes, but no regrets, right? Yeah. At the end of the day, like 

Gordon Greene, PE: it's all learning. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Exactly. Yeah. Good or bad, you, you learn either way. So I think that's one. And then probably last is the, the taco bus. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yeah. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Lunch as a probably career defining moment. Um, you know, I don't, I don't think I'd be here today had we not talked about joining PGA at that time.

Um, but yeah, and it's funny about this whole career steering thing. It's not like we plan a lot of those things, right. The crosstown connector. I think that job was just sitting on the shelf for God knows how long before we went up picking it up, and 

Gordon Greene, PE: yeah, 

Joe Losaria, PE: it's kind of fell on our laps and there you go.

Changed our careers. Right. 

Gordon Greene, PE: I got sucked into that being the sucker that volunteered [00:38:00] for a Poncy report in a drainage staff meeting. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yeah. No, I mean, same. Same with me. I remember I was trying to join the Structures group. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Yep. 

Joe Losaria, PE: The timing of my master's degree was just right when the crosstown connector was starting up and they needed, 

Gordon Greene, PE: I'll do it.

Joe Losaria, PE: They needed structure engineers for that project. So yeah, that's, 

Gordon Greene, PE: those are long nights. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Oh 

yeah. So I think the 

lesson though is like as much steering as you do, there is some things that, that just kind of naturally happens, but uh, 

Gordon Greene, PE: just gotta roll with it. 

Joe Losaria, PE: But I think to your point, the ice values, right?

As long as you keep the integrity, commitment, excellence, no matter where you steer your career path, you'll end up in the right place. If you keep those three in mind, you know? 

Gordon Greene, PE: That's right. 

Yeah. I'd probably say Taco Bus would be on my list as well. That's, we, I think we'd hired a couple of people, not very many.

Hiring's one thing, you know, persuading someone to do what you and Johnny [00:39:00] did. I, you know, I had never done them before. I wasn't sure that, that I was capable of that. Um, but like I mentioned earlier, to be able to do it, you know, truthfully and with integrity, I wasn't tr didn't fool you into anything.

'cause the last thing I wanted was to talk you into such a huge career move you and Johnny. And then not deliver and disappoint you and you know, that I wouldn't have been able to live with myself. So, um, it was a good learning opportunity for like, okay, you can, I'm, I'm capable of this. Um, and you can do it by telling the truth.

You can talk people into things, into big decisions, um, with the truth. 

That's amazing. 

Joe Losaria, PE: To, to your point, I think recruiting the rest of the structures group from our network. I mean, I kind of employed the same tactics in a way, right? I mean, started with Johnny, but obviously our first two or three hires were our former coworkers from other places.

So I, [00:40:00] I think learned, learned a lot from, from your tactics. So. 

Gordon Greene, PE: All right. Well, I think that was good. I, I enjoyed, um. Thinking back on some of those old projects and, you know, we've known each other and been friends for a long, long time. Um, I'm glad, uh, that you're here at PGA, uh, forever and um, 

Joe Losaria, PE: forever 

Gordon Greene, PE: and, you know, you're, you're a prime example of, of what we always try to do the best we can as to.

Hire people that are smarter than us. And I know that that probably embarrasses you, but um, you know, I know you're doing the same. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Oh, absolutely. 

Gordon Greene, PE: You're, you're trying to bring in, you know, the best and brightest structures, engineers, and, uh, if at all possible, you wanna be smarter than you because we're not gonna be here forever.

And we want next generation of PGA to be, uh, to be better and better. So, um, appreciate you joining me here. 

Joe Losaria, PE: Yes, sir. 

Gordon Greene, PE: PGA Breaking the ICE podcast. And um, look forward to the next one. And then. All we're doing on three, we're gonna do [00:41:00] a really good job with this, okay? 

Joe Losaria, PE: Okay. 

Gordon Greene, PE: Alright, so on three 

Joe Losaria, PE: on 

Gordon Greene, PE: Alright, one, two, go.

PGA. That's better.